On this episode of Hiring Insights, Mosah Fernandez Goodman sits down with three attorneys: Brenda Morris, Drew Fossum, and David Hecker. Brenda is the Vice President, Assistant General Counsel, Litigation, Employment and Compliance at Sealed Air, Drew is the Vice President and General Counsel at Tenaska, Inc., and David is the Group General Counsel for Kiewit. Part 2 of this 2-part episode focuses on their insights into the job seeking process and experience.
The legal and executive job market today; recession, record revenue, who’s hiring right now?
There could be 10 other resumes just as good as yours, whether you’re a CFO looking to make a move or an attorney with 20 years of experience, what should you be doing to stand out in the job search process?
Looking at, evaluating, and negotiating your compensation prior to starting a job.
Considerations before starting a search; be realistic about the possibilities for your career or the type of practice you are looking for, and the type of lifestyle you want to live.
What things are a hiring manager looking for to gauge and understand a candidate’s validity or credibility?
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[00:00:00] Richard: Welcome to Hiring Insights. The podcast that provides insight into the executive hiring process and experience, whether you are a job seeker, a people leader, a recruiter, an executive coach, or simply interested in talent, there is something here for you on the Hiring Insights. Today's episode is presented by Top Talent Advocates, where we advocate for executive and legal talent.
You can learn more about Top Talent Advocates, listen to other episodes, and hire great talent by visiting toptalentadvocates.com and clicking on podcast. Now here's your host for Hiring Insights, Mosah Fernandez Goodman.
[00:00:43] Mosah: Thank you for joining us for part two of our conversation with Brenda Morris, Vice President of Litigation, Employment, and Compliance at Sealed Air, Drew Fossum, Senior Vice President and General Counsel at Tenaska and David Hecker, Group General Counsel at Kiewit. If you haven’t already listened to our first episode with this trio, it offers incredible and wonderful insights into how they navigated the start to their careers.
Thanks so much everyone, really enjoyed understanding a little bit more about you and your career paths and now we’d like to talk about some of your guidance for insights into the job seeking process and experience.
Welcome back to the second part of our conversation with Brenda, Drew, and David. Really enjoyed the first round of conversation that we had and now I’d like to move the conversation to talking about job seeking and some of the experiences that you have had.
Sitting here it’s 2023 and people are talking about a recession, whether we're already in it, whether it's coming up and in how intense it might be. Having obviously exited or relatively so exited the pandemic. Uh, there's a lot of talk about the legal job market and executive hiring, whether companies should be doing it, whether they are doing it.
Just generally, what is each of your sort of perceptions of the legal and the executive job market now?
[00:2:18] Drew: I'm glad to take a shot at that Mo. Again, speaking narrowly just to our industry, I think the energy industry has not started to experience recession at this point. If anything, we're in a rapid growth mode.
And I see companies across the electric, gas and liquid fuels industry, looking for people still. And I don't see any likely reduction in that demand for good quality people over the next 12 to 24 months really.
[00:02:52] Brenda: I think the same is for most companies too, is if the business is there, they're still looking to fill the fill positions.
Um, especially I, I've seen and gotten a lot of requests in the diversity and inclusion market. I mean, they're looking for individuals that are, have the experience and you know, to kind of say, well, we can't find those candidates it's a bit of a cop out. I mean, you can find the candidates. I can help you find the candidates.
I know a lot of people who you may be interested in and are wonderful. So it's like if you build it, they will come. So I think the jobs are still hiring that they need. I mean, it is scary. You never know how certain industries will be hit, but I don't think you should let that, um, scare you into, um, stagnation.
You just gotta keep pushing forward.
[00:03:43] Mosah: There’s always gonna be a need for heat and energy. There's always gonna be a need for bubble wrap. And people are still gonna need to be in buildings. David, what’s your take on the market?
[00:03:53] David: I agree. Um, I mean we're big in the energy space as well as infrastructure.
When the economy's bad, the government spends money on infrastructure to try and boost the economy. We've hired in the last, you know, nine months, probably 10 lawyers to our company. We've just had a record year for revenue last year. So I would say we're, our challenge is being able to find enough quality people to continue to allow us to grow.
So, kind of contrary to what you hear a lot about, you know, what's going on in the general economy, I would say we're the opposite of that. So we're, we're in a buyer's market from our standpoint, looking for talent.
[00:04:36] Mosah: Thank you. So the next question is, is not as time bound in terms of whether we're in a recession or a booming economy. But if someone came to you and said, you know, Brenda, Drew, David, I'm thinking about starting a job search and I'd love to know what your advice would be as I start that executive level, you know, higher, higher pay, but also higher stress type role that each of you are in.
What would be your advice to those folks just getting started in their job journey?
[00:05:11] Brenda: Be comfortable with three people that you feel comfortable talking about moving forward with a position that you know, that know you so that they can help you to make sure that your resume really does reflect your experience and is a true reflection of you.
And also too, if they hear things, I think sometimes people get a little cultish about sharing you know, I'm looking. You know, that's why you choose three people you trust cuz lawyers do like to talk. So three people you trust, you never know what's gonna come back.
[00:05:44] Mosah: Thank you David, Drew?
[00:05:46] David: Um, I would say, you know, cast a net broadly if you're a just graduate from law school, um, you know, or just coming outta your first job, I would say cast your net broadly.
You need opportunity, you need experience. And so while you, you know, you might come out wanting a big law job, the reality is there's only a handful of those and you can get really great experience from quality firms. If I was a young person and I had some options, I would look at the firm that was going to give me the best mentoring and the most broad experience because I just don't know what kind of practice options there are out there.
I'd need to get exposed to them. And, um, you know, I might think I want to practice in one area, but when I get exposed to it, I don't like the day-to-day, you know, practice in that area, so I'll move to something else. And then just generally attitude goes a long way. I always tell people that impress me, it's the positive attitude when they come in and they're positive about the opportunity, about wanting to work for us, that they've done their research.
That goes a long way in impressing me, um, as they're the, you know, a potentially, um, good solution for us. When you come in and you just lay an impressive resume down, but you're just kind of, you know, not enthusiastic, that tells me you don't really want the job, but you're just going through the motions.
And I think a positive energetic attitude goes a tremendous way in impressing a potential employer.
[00:07:19] Mosah: And that's probably true in, in your opinion at all levels, right? Regardless of whether you have 20 years under your proverbial belt in managing complex cases, or you're a CFO at one company, moving to another, attitude really can't be taught.
I, again, I'm sort of putting words in your mouth, but I'm looking for validation.
[00:07:37] David: No, I agree. I mean, if you came in and, and you're just going through the motions, what am I supposed to take away from that? Just be wowed by a resume? I'm gonna get 10 other resumes that are just as good. I mean, that's the reality of where we're at right now.
So if you're not as positive and energetic and enthused about the opportunity, um, convince me that you wanna live in Omaha, and not just say the words and then hope you get the job, and then convince me you're gonna telecommute from somewhere. Um, yeah. So I, I think positive is really, really important if you're trying to get a job.
[00:08:11] Mosah: Thanks David. And Drew, I'm wondering if I might narrow the question a little bit more specifically for you is just for the executive that's seeking their next role or the more senior level council, um, what advice do you give that person as they start their, their job search?
[00:08:28] Drew: I think I'd start with; you've spent your career building a set of contacts, now use them.
And by that, I mean for any of us, at particularly a stage in our careers when we've been out for 5 or 10 or 15 years, you'll have a set of very good contacts. They may be former colleagues at law firms or companies. They may be former professors; they may be expert witnesses that worked on a case for you.
Call them. Block off a half hour or 45 minutes and schedule a disciplined, thorough discussion about your intentions, what you're looking for, what you're asking them to help you with. and approach that conversation as an important professional event where you've prepared for it, you've outlined your thoughts, you communicate clearly, and you've got a positive attitude about the next stage in your career.
And by the way, I, I've described this in excruciating detail, even though I've never been smart enough to do it. I've had people in my office doing it to me and I was blown away by how effective it was. Because I think you'll find if you do that with your top 10 contacts, some of them may have been huge fans to start with, and some of them may be less huge, but predisposed to think you were pretty good.
They'll all be huge fans by the time they're finished with that 45-minute conversation. And they'll be very effective in helping you find a job or keeping their radar tuned up to maximum for you and there's nothing more effective.
[00:09:58] Mosah: So sort of building that group of advocates, if you will.
And that's a lot of what we do with our clients. Drew is exactly that, is help connect them to those folks that we know, that trust our insights into people and then encourage people to leverage their own networks because nothing is more significant than having someone say, I'd like to introduce you to someone I know, trust, like.
[00:10:17Drew: Exactly. Nothing's more authentic than that.
[00:10:20] Mosah: Absolutely. Absolutely. So a question that, might not have been as appropriate, and, and this this isn't intended in any way other than to get to the heart of social media, but each of you sort of rose to the top of your fields before LinkedIn was really an active element of how someone builds that online presence and that online brand.
We do a lot of that work with executives. I'm wondering if you might, uh, more so from the, uh, hiring manager, since each of you are in those seats now, describe to our listeners how LinkedIn, social media, email traffic, plays a role in someone's ability to help secure their next opportunity. And questions out there for anyone who wants to take this first stab at it.
[00:11:02] Brenda: Well, I think LinkedIn is important to get insights on if you are, if you, you already have interviews set up who you're meeting with. Um, if you're being introduced to someone, you know who you're going to be, you know, what is their background, to find some commonality to just do that, that initial research on that individual so that you can come and be inquisitive and look like you know, you really have spent some time investing in what this company does, what that law firm does, what this individual does, what was their career path.
So I think it, it gives those kind of great introductory kind of settings. But I, I have to say, I, you know, I am a little nervous when people kind of LinkedIn stalk me. You know, I can see, just remember, you know, keep on coming back, looking at you, looking at you. I didn't change it since yesterday.
[00:12:00] Mosah: So the people who stalk you but aren't smart enough to turn off the fact that they, they, you can see right.
[00:12:06] Brenda: Well, that tells you something right there. Right. That gives you some insight. So I, you know, I, I have not been the biggest user of LinkedIn other than, you know, looking at, at candidates, looking at other people, looking at people that I might meet at meetings or at different networking events.
Um, so I think it can be useful.
[00:12:27] Mosah: David, Drew, anything to add to either side of the equation when it comes to social media or electronic, uh, sort of networking, if you will?
[00:12:35] Drew: I guess I'd add one thing. It's been a long time since I wrote a law review article, but I think of, LinkedIn as more of a secondary source when I'm, uh, evaluating a candidate.
It's more to validate and cross-check potential common acquaintances that I could reach out to live and talk to about the candidate. Um, it's, it's a validation tool.
[00:12:55] Mosah: Got it. Thank you. David. Anything to add?
[00:12:58] David: All I would add is that, uh, if you give me a resume, you should assume that when you make it past our initial screening, I'm gonna look up your online presence and what pops up is gonna have to be consistent with what's on your resume.
And that includes your LinkedIn account. So you, you know, stopped working for a farm three months ago, according to LinkedIn, but your resume says you're still there. I'm gonna be asking you questions about that. Um, that's low hanging fruit to me. I know that when we're out looking for a position, our HR group will scan, uh, search whatever they, they they're able to do, um, for can potential candidates through LinkedIn.
I couldn't tell you how effective that is. I question whether or not it's a particularly effective tool. I think we have a real challenge because of where we're located, um, getting candidates from around the country. Who, they might seem like they're interested in the position, but the move to Omaha is a big challenge, and that's a whole different discussion.
And LinkedIn really doesn't address that, right? Or it is just kind of words on a, on a screen. And I need to be able to talk to people and get them to understand what the job is really about and see if they're really interested in.
[00:14:15] Mosah: Sure. And so when we, when we're working with candidates or those looking for new opportunities, we sort of describe it to people as having a diversified portfolio.
No different than managing an investment. You know, you're gonna have some stocks, you're gonna have some bonds, some real estate. And in the same way that you're managing your, your search, you should be using every tool at your disposal. LinkedIn being one of those. But probably the most important, particularly after you've accumulated this series of networks, I think each of you have alluded to or stated specifically, it's the opportunity to connect with people because people hire people and LinkedIn can just be a conduit to grow that. Or as, as each of you have described, sort of confirm what, how you're presenting yourself. So thanks for your insights on that.
Wanna move to a little bit of a conversation on comp, either from the hiring manager perspective or, or tips and tricks that each of you have maybe sort of learned or experiences that you've had is, how does someone really look at and evaluate and maybe even negotiate their compensation prior to starting a job?
So they already have the offer and they've got, uh, you know, a series of, of benefits and, and various forms of comp and obviously it depends on public, private, um, whole, whole slew of things go into compensation. But how should someone think about compensation and, and whether even they should negotiate it, how, how they should go about that?
[00:15:42] David: Well, I would just say I think you should expect to be treated fairly by your employer. And I think it's a fair question to, I mean, we're a large enough department, uh, there, there's other people in the position already that you're looking to get into. And while I wouldn't disclose specifics, I would certainly tell them the range that those people are in.
And I would be transparent with the candidate about where, you know, where we're at and what can be done. If they think they need to get more money. I think ask for it. And I’ll tell you honestly if I can or I can't. Uh, maybe I'll try and convince you, you don't need as much in Omaha, but yeah, I, I think have an open, candid conversation about what's done.
I hired someone recently and she told me that she'd been given a bunch of advice on how to approach and not to put a number out there. And I said, well, I'm as the hiring manager, I'm not gonna hire somebody without knowing what I'm gonna have to pay you. So it just seemed odd and, you know, her number was actually less than what I offered.
So I'm not sure that some of that advice is really practical. Uh, I would be transparent about what I felt I need, what I felt I was worth, and if the employer can match that, they will. And if they can't, they won’t.
[00:16:57] Mosah: Thanks David. Yeah, no, that sounds like a great sort of view on it that you and, and certainly others in your company take.
So, Brenda, Drew, anything, anything to add from a comp perspective?
[00:17:10] Brenda: Yeah, I think not being afraid to, to ask is good advice. I also think depending on what level you're coming in as if you're coming in as a senior executive, I think you should invest in going to a professional like you Mosah or an attorney that you know, handles comp or senior execs cuz they have a better view of the perspective of what clumps are out there at, you know, different locations, different levels, what all you can negotiate, what all can you put into a package.
So, if you're a senior level, I think you should invest in having a professional help you walk through it. And I also, when you think about not being afraid to ask, just know, don't be afraid to ask, but back it up. I'm asking this because, and this is what I have to offer behind it. You know, just don't say, you know, I've always wanted to make 300,000.
300,000. That's what I want. Yeah. Okay. Sure. I always wanted an elephant don’t think I'm gonna get it.
[00:18:11] Mosah: Uh, thanks. Thanks Brenda. Drew, any, any insight on comp or structure of it?
[00:18:17] Drew: Sure. Um, I guess a, a sort of, uh, junior, varsity level comment and then maybe one that hopefully is a little more sophisticated. The junior varsity level advice to anyone, searching for a job is when you get to the point of talking seriously about the position and taking it, you need to know as the candidate what the hiring, uh, executive knows about the range of comps in that market, whether it's Omaha, whether it's Washington, whether it's LA. That person's got a piece of paper on their desk from the HR department that tells 'em what the range of expectations is for that position in that size company in that market.
You as the candidate, need to know what that range is. That’s the JV level advice. The more important part of the process though is once you're sure you want the job, once you know they're going to offer it or they have offered it, you need to get yourself as high in that range as you can. And you shouldn't be shy about negotiating for the number that you want, but be prepared to give specific examples of why that's appropriate.
The kinds of examples that will cause a hiring manager to nod their head up and down instead of to do this. And it's, it's a credibility, you know, persuasiveness negotiation issue. You're either good at it or you're not, but the more you practice it, the better you get.
[00:19:33] Mosah: There you go. Thanks Drew. Appreciate it.
So, in a sentence, maybe, what would be the best advice any of you could give to a job seeker generally? Just really quick, someone says they're passing you in the hallway, hey, I'm looking for a job. What would you say to 'em?
[00:19:46] Drew: How about keep your head up and never lose the faith.
[00:19:50] Mosah: That's great. It's a start to a song.
[00:19:55] Brenda: Where is it that you want to go?
I mean, I think just looking for a job. I think being very, again, I use the word deliberate. Where is it that you want to go? All of it is a little bit, all of us have expressed a little bit of happenstance in our career, but each level was getting to a different job, a different level, you know? Um, and I, it sounds like all of us are excited about our jobs because it offers different experiences and it's exciting.
And I think you have to be driven by what it is, your passion rather than dollar.
[00:20:27] Mosah: Got it. Thank you, Brenda. David, anything to add?
[00:20:30] David: I think I would go to Brenda. Her advice is the right one. I mean, what do you want to do and where do you want to do it? And, and what is the lifestyle that you're looking for?
I mean, all those are relevant considerations that, you know, if you wanna make a million dollars a year, there's certain kinds of practice you need to do. If you want to do that kind of practice in Omaha, it's not gonna happen. You know, if you want to be an environmental law, a lawyer in, you know, some particular place that doesn't have an environmental practice, that's not gonna happen.
So getting realistic about what's possible for the career you want the type of practice where you want to practice, how much you want to make. And to me it's not so much about the dollars and cents, but what kind of lifestyle do you want to have? Right. There you go. Um, so all those, I would ask before I would talk specifics about anything, you know, what is it that you wanna do and if it's realistic, you know, let's get focused on how to make that happen.
If it's not realistic, then we need to readjust to what reality.
[00:21:29] Mosah: Sounds like a good gateway to the cost-of-living argument in Omaha is what it sounds like, David.
[00:21:34] Drew: Yeah. If you want a good cost of living, this is the place. If you wanna knock off early at a Friday afternoon and ski a few runs, not so much.
[00:21:41] Mosah: That's great. Okay. So, um, I'm sure we'll send that over to the chamber.
Last category of questions. And I think this is gonna be really helpful for those who might actually interview with any of the three of you at some point in time or, or the moral equivalent. Um, you know, insights from a hiring manager perspective when you're looking at candidates, and some of that's been peppered throughout the conversation, you know, when, when, when you're going through the hiring process, what are, what are the things that you are looking at to gauge and understand a candidate's, either validity or their sort of credibility? What are those things that are running through your mind as a hiring manager to evaluate a candidate at any stage and whatever stage is most important to you?
Resume review, interview, comp, negotiation, questions out there intentionally broad.
[00:22:39] David: Well, I would say, communication is probably the number one thing. Uh, I would expect someone to be an effective communicator with me. Um, be direct, answer the questions, be positive in their communication. But we're in a communication business.
We're communicating to managers; hires are communicating to me. We're communicating with third parties. The ability to communicate effectively is one of the most important elements that I'm gonna look for, both orally and in writing. Cuz so much of what we do now is, is written. I would also, I guess say being transparent about your past experiences.
I always look to see, you know, how many jobs they've had. And I know that's a superficial thing to look at, but we're like Drew's company, we're a culture-based company. Our people are long term, we're employee owned. And if you've been hopping from job to job for whatever reason, have an explanation for why that is.
Um, you're looking for better opportunities than you got them. You had an illness in the family and had to relocate. Whatever it is, have an explanation for why you've changed, you know, a number of times or, and be sensitive to that if you have that on your resume, um, understand that people are gonna ask that question and have an answer.
It's not a, a disqualifying element, but it's certainly something that I ask about. And if people are defensive about it or, you know, don't want to be transparent or they're not honest, I don't mind if somebody's, you know, gotten better positions a number of times moved up, if you will, or if people have moved around for personal reasons, but I want to get a reason that tells me something.
You're just not shopping around for a little bit more money. Um, and that's, that doesn't fit the culture that we've got. We want long-term people that really believe in our company.
[00:24:27] Mosah: That's great, David. Thank you. Brenda, Drew, anything to add to that as you're looking at evaluating candidates that might want to work for you or, or experiences that you've had that have been great or maybe not so great?
[00:24:38] Brenda: I look for work ethic and mental agility. I wanna know that, you know, you're a hard worker that doesn't mind working hard and that you are willing to go with the curve balls, you know, to understand. So, you know, I do something in interviews that I used to hate, but it's a good process. I give hypotheticals, um, and I mix them up with kind of real stuff and then throw a lot of messy in it just to see, you know, how you're gonna work with other teams, how you're gonna think through when there's something crazy happening.
Um, because it, it's, I mean, there is or could be a very wrong answer, and of course you are not the candidate if you're coming up with that, but it's, um, not so much a right or wrong, it's, it's, I wanna see how you think. Um, and I wanna see if you're a good fit for the team. And when I say a good fit for the team, I look at everybody that I bring onto my team not for the team that I have, but for the team I want to be. Cuz if I just look for the team that I have, we're gonna be kind of stagnant.
I'm looking for somebody who brings something to the team. How can you take us higher? What do you do that we don't have? What do you have that would be great to bring in, you know, how can this person's attitude help, you know, bolster this person, you know, kind of help them learn and grow.
So that's what I kind of, uh, look for when I'm interviewing candidates. And in doing that, I think as, as David said about transparency, you have to open up about yourself too and about the team and honestly what you're looking for so that they can give you honest feedback.
[00:26:13] Mosah: Yeah, great insights. Thank you, Brenda.
Drew, anything to add?
[00:26:17] Drew: Well, just a couple of thoughts. Um, we've been very fortunate since I've been at Tenaska 16 years. We've, we've had three lawyers in my group of approximately seven leave by retirement, and we've had three hires. Uh, each of the hires was someone that we were able to cross reference with a previously known and trusted third party who knew the individual very well and vouched for their wattage and wiring and work ethic and skillsets and all of that stuff.
The thing that's really hard to pin down is whether, like David said, they're gonna fit the culture. Um, we're a privately held, company founder, founders are still involved in the business. Cultures really important to us and I for one, hate interviewing and hiring people. I want the people that we do hire to stay forever.
We've been to Hotel California so far. I would love to see that continue. So finding someone who's a good fit and who will be comfortable staying here for a long period of time, if they're fairly compensated and given interesting things to work on is the hardest part of hiring someone, but it's what we've fortunately been pretty good at so far.
[00:27:19] Mosah: Thanks, Drew. Okay, so last question for each of you is, um, before maybe I ask for your best lawyer joke, which is, um, what advice do you have for hiring managers looking to recruit and retain talent in today's market? It's, it's one thing to expect that or hope that someone fits your culture and stays forever.
But what, what advice to the hiring managers, what advice to the moral or to each of you would you give, uh, in order to recruit and then really work to retain that talent? What's many of the things, maybe maintaining the culture, working to make sure people are paid fairly? Those are the kinds of things that I hear from our, our clients all the time.
[00:27:56] Drew: Yeah. And it's hard to set up my gatekeepers in the HR department to do that job very efficiently. They, they have a good understanding of, uh, the, the larger organizations at my company and what the expectations are within those organizations. But still, it's difficult for them to be as effective a gatekeeper as I could be on that first layer of screening, but I, I can't do that myself.
Um, so I do try to emphasize the culture and I do try to guide them to look for people who, who check the right boxes, but who also are looking for stability and are looking for the longer term and will be comfortable if they achieve their career success, you know, successes gradually over time as opposed to just, you know, two or three years in their wealthy and can retire.
[00:28:46] Mosah: Thanks Drew. Brenda, David, any, any advice to the, your peers as they look to recruit and retain talent?
[00:28:54] David: Well again, we're in very much, I think, similar situation to Drew and, and Tenaska. You know, I always want them to sell the opportunity, you know, or we're going to pay people fairly, you have to live in Omaha or, or one of the places where we have a major hub office.
But I always think the benefit of it is the opportunity. The opportunity to live in a reasonably priced location. The opportunity to do very challenging work. The opportunity to be at a company that wants to you to retire from there. Those are culture type issues in my, in my experience. But that's where the focus, cuz a lot of people that have been out in the marketplace, that's what they're fundamentally looking for, right?
They want a new challenge; they want a more sophisticated challenge. Uh, it's not necessarily about money. And again, we're gonna pay fairly. And if that's what you're willing to accept, then you're gonna be fine. It's the people that want the opportunity, the, um, kind of excite me. So the first thing that our first layer of people are gonna be is question them about what they've done in the past and what they liked about it, what they didn't like about.
And what, you know, why are they interested in this position? And what we're wanting to hear from them is, I want to take on a bigger challenge. I want, you know, an answer that focuses on this is an opportunity that I want. And then we can kind of work with that.
[00:30:16] Mosah: Great, thank David, and Brenda?
[00:30:19] Brenda: Yeah. So along the same lines, I think, um, I ask our recruitment team to really ask, um, candidates why this job?
Why now? And because I wanna know what it is they're looking for, because I want to help them to grow. One thing you mentioned earlier Mosah is that people gravitate towards people. And a lot of times people leave people not jobs. So I wanna make sure we have an opportunity to help you grow and get what you're looking to gain, and that this is a team that's gonna be invested in you.
I know I work harder for people that I feel, you know, that I'm working as a team with. I don’t wanna let you down. If the four of us are working, uh, on, on an effort, uh, it's my mission to make sure we get there. One of the greatest compliments I got when I was working at the Justice Department is one of a very seasoned litigator, somebody who was respected, you know, across the country.
Um, I had the opportunity to do a trial with him and, um, I argued a horrible motion, which I knew I was gonna go down in flames and, but I, I had to do it. And when I sat down, he leaned over and whispered to me, I'd be in a foxhole with you any day. Oh, that's great. And I was like, yes. So, you know, it's, I think that's what we wanna do is to make sure, you know, you're only as strong as your weakest link.
We are here to make not only you better and making you better, makes us better.
[00:31:48] Mosah: Thanks Brendan. Knowing you as I do, I would say, uh, he was right. So that's great, thank you.
Thanks again to each of you. Could not obviously say thank you enough, um, for all the insights that you've shared on this episode. I know our listeners are appreciative of it. So, uh, I'm gonna go quick, round the round the horn, if you will, and offer any closing thoughts or, or information that you might wanna share with final listeners to learn more about you, your companies.
David, we'll start with you.
[00:32:19] David: Sure. If you'd like to learn more about Kiewit and the interesting work that we do, you can go to kiewit.com, that's Kiewit. And if you're interested in expanding your personal network, feel free to reach out to me, uh, David.hecker@kiewit.com.
[00:32:35] Mosah: Thanks, David. Drew.
[00:32:37] Drew: Appreciate the opportunity tonight.
Uh, Mo this was a very interesting conversation. Uh, David and uh, Brenda, appreciate getting the chance to know you. Yeah, please take a look at tenaska.com if you'd like to know more about our company, and you can get ahold of me at, uh, that website look for Drew Fossum and send me a message.
[00:32:56] Mosah: Thanks so much Drew and Brenda.
[00:32:58] Brenda: So Sealed Air is not just bubble wrap. We are so committed to the environment and we are in your homes in all kinds of ways. All kinds of things that you have from meat packing to what you may eat your cereal out of, to opening up your bag of m&ms. And we are committed to making this plan in a better place than what we find it.
And it's really innovative and it is exciting to work with such smart people. You know, these engineers are just phenomenal and the work is fun. So if you would like to come to Charlotte, I'm telling you it's number five city in the country, people are moving here and droves, y'all. So please, I'd be more than happy to talk to you.
My email address is very simple brendamorris@sealedair.com.
[00:33:49] Mosah: Thanks so much to each of you for joining us on this episode, really appreciate it.
[00:33:56] Richard: Thank you for joining us on Hiring Insights. Remember, you can learn more about Top Talent Advocates and listen to other episodes by visiting toptalentadvocates.com and click on the Podcast.
You can also email us at tta@toptalentadvocates.com