This episode of Hiring Insights features three attorneys: Brenda Morris, Drew Fossum, and David Hecker. Brenda is the Vice President, Assistant General Counsel, Litigation, Employment and Compliance at Sealed Air, Drew is the Vice President and General Counsel at Tenaska, Inc., and David is the Group General Counsel for Kiewit. Part 1 of this 2-part episode focuses on their paths to an executive level legal career, strategies, and the importance of networking.
Career journeys: they’re never linear. What did you expect to happen along the way, and what are some things that happened that you weren’t quite expecting?
You can’t always control the options that you’ll have at various points in your career, but they’re critical junctures. The more you have thought through some type of strategy, the better prepared you’ll be.
Taking on new opportunities, constantly absorbing knowledge, finding value in mentors and consistently networking, all play major parts in leading you down the most opportune path.
Building and cultivating a professional network.
Going in-house as an executive is a dual functioning role, what should you be aware of to bring value across cross-functional teams?
Three words to encourage you to get out of comfort zone when it comes to networking.
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[00:00:00] Richard: Welcome to Hiring Insights. The podcast that provides insight into the executive hiring process and experience, whether you are a job seeker, a people leader, a recruiter, an executive coach, or simply interested in talent, there is something here for you on the Hiring Insights. Today's episode is presented by Top Talent Advocates, where we advocate for executive and legal talent.
You can learn more about Top Talent Advocates, listen to other episodes, and hire great talent by visiting toptalentadvocates.com and clicking on podcast. Now here's your host for Hiring Insights, Mosah Fernandez Goodman.
[00:00:44] Mosah: Brenda, David, Drew, thanks so much for joining me tonight. I can't tell you how much I appreciate both your time and what I know will be a really interesting set of, of insights. So, before we dive into the career that each of you has built and done so well in building, I was hoping that you could share a little bit about who you are, what you're reading, watching, following, just the interesting parts about you that are outside of the law for a moment.
And let's start with David.
[00:01:13] David: Sure. Well, I'm watching, binge watching Yellowstone with my wife. That's our favorite show. We love sports and my wife and I love to travel a lot, so we're happy that the pandemic has eased and we're able to get back to doing what we enjoy the most. We live in Omaha, Nebraska, but I'm actually participating right now from downtown Los Angeles.
And it's kind of part and parcel of the career that I've got. I go where the problems are and they're rarely in Omaha. So I get to spend a lot of time on the road and since our kids are grown, my wife is able to join me on a lot of trips.
[00:01:51] Mosah: That’s great, thanks so much, David. Brenda, tell us a little bit about yourself.
[00:01:56] Brenda: Same. We are at the travelers. We just recently, Mosah knows this, got back from the Maldives. We were, that's one of the bucket list trips that we wanted to take. You know, I was always fascinated with those huts over the water. I recommend don't stay in them just cause it, it looks romantic, it looks wonderful, and I love the sound of the waves. But when you stay in those huts, it's more like you're in a washing machine. It's like slush, slush, slush. So it was very wonderful and romantic, but I'd rather stayed on a bungalow on the beach and hear the roar of the waves. But also love to cook. So we entertain a lot at our home and we are recent transplants to Charlotte, North Carolina.
My husband and I are from the Washington, DC area, but we have lots of family that have made it their quest to come here several times in that short period of time, just so they can sit around, laugh, drink with us, and eat a lot of my food.
[00:02:54] Mosah: Great, thanks so much Brenda and Drew, tell us a little bit about you.
[00:02:58] Drew: Well, thanks Mo. I am an Omaha, Nebraska resident. Also, spent a big chunk of my career living in Washington, DC however, and working for a couple of different law firms and then as fate would have it in the energy industry, which I'm involved in. Moved further west and spent some time in Houston and two tours of duty in Omaha and back again and enjoy it a lot and to establish my bonafides as a Midwesterner.
I will admit to you that after the podcast recording tonight, I will finish packing up my stuff for an ice fishing trip that I'm heading out on tomorrow morning in South Dakota.
[00:03:35] Mosah: Wow. And does it sound like a washing machine when you're on the lake, or is that not?
[00:03:40] Drew: I hope not, that would be really, really bad.
[00:03:43] Mosah: Thanks, Drew. All right. So now that you know a little bit about the folks on a personal level, um, let's dive into your career paths. And the first question's gonna go to, let's start with you, Brenda, on this one. What did you expect that happened to happen in your career path? What'd you not expect?
And maybe just for those who don't already know you or haven't already looked you up on LinkedIn, maybe just walk through the high level of your, of what you've accomplished over your tenure as an attorney in a couple of different roles.
[00:04:14] Brenda: Yeah. I started out as a government attorney working as a prosecutor for the Manhattan DA's office and absolutely positively loved the job, thought I was gonna be there forever.
Loved New York, loved the people, loved the trials. The experience was amazing because it's New York. Every case is different. The juries are always a crapshoot. It is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get. And so it was a great training ground. My parents were sick, so I'm from DC and they asked me to come back home.
So that's how I ended up at the Justice Department. I came back to DC, kind of came back, you know, begrudgingly cuz I hated leaving New York and had no idea that the best job in the world was the job I came to at DOJ in the public integrity section, which was a small team of attorneys that were agnostic to prosecuting and investigating political corruption as well as any kind of conflict of interest. Like a local US attorney's office shouldn't look into an investigation of their own judge, federal judges or FBI, CIA. So we'd come in and conduct those investigations and trials if necessary. So it was a fabulous job. Um, loved it until I kind of ran outta runway.
I became the number two in on charge of our office, the principal deputy chief, and then I was the acting chief, and I missed doing trials. I wanted to continue doing trials, and I just said, finally, let me dust off my resume and just see. Maybe I wanna go in private practice.
I told three people, and one of those three people said, hey, I don't know the company, but there's a company locally that's looking for someone to start an internal investigations team, and I think you'd be great.
Yeah, give my name. And that's how I became the, I started the investigations team with Booz Allen Hamilton, a government consulting company that specializes in cybersecurity for the government. And that was a fantastic job. I enjoyed it immensely. It was always something different. And then the next thing I knew, after a couple changes, I met someone. As a matter of fact, in networking as Mosah knows, and they said, I might be looking for somebody to do some litigation for me. And I said, sure, let me know.
And it ended up becoming the job I have now as the Vice President of Litigation, Employment and Compliance at Sealed Air, which is bubble wrap. So then that's why recent transplant, the Charlotte, because that's where bubble wrap is, the home.
[00:06:49] Mosah: The home of bubble wrap. Thank you. Drew, you wanna tell us a little bit about your career journey? I know you mentioned law firms and how you got there, but maybe share a little bit more about what you expected to happen and maybe some things that happened that you weren't quite expecting.
[00:07:06] Drew: Yeah. Glad to Mo it. I, I guess I'd start by, uh, go back to the Midwestern aspect of my life.
I'm actually from this part of the country and became a foreign exchange student in law school and went to school in Dallas. It was an interesting experience, but I was even at that point interested in the energy industry and the, uh, kind of the confluence of law regulation and public policy and the energy industry was a great case study and that still is.
So after law school went to work in Washington, DC with a big Texas based law firm, spent 11 years total in DC with a couple of different law firms representing energy clients in transactions regulatory matters. Litigation, a little bit of lobby and kind of a broad cross-section things, but the common thread being representing energy clients.
At that point, I was given an opportunity to move in-house, which seemed like a great opportunity at the time, I had young kids. And the position was in Omaha, Nebraska, interestingly, and with a large pipeline, natural gas pipeline subsidiary of a company that none of you have heard of. It was called Enron.
And I was at the branch campus here in Omaha minded my own business as a pipeline lawyer. And then in what turned out to be the year of the Enron bankruptcy, my boss retired and I was given the opportunity to become general counsel of the pipeline group for Enron. All of its interstate pipeline businesses, uh, we're still unpacking boxes in the house when later that fall, the company went off a cliff and ultimately went bankrupt in early December.
So kind of a traumatic transition in my career. And I guess just to answer the question, you started with Mo, I wanted to lead up to that example. One of the things about planning a career in advance is curve balls are thrown. What you need to do is make sure they don't hit you in the head.
And it turned out the interstate pipeline businesses, along with Enron's electric utility businesses were about the only part of the company that was consistently profitable before and after the bankruptcy. So I stayed on, learned far more about bankruptcy law than I would ever care to know.
Eventually was given an opportunity to move on to a different company here in Omaha and move back. And I have more than a few people who can look a diehard Nebraska bred Husker fan in the eye and say, I know you love Nebraska and it's the best place in the world to live, but you were born here. I actually moved here twice.
But the rest is history. At Tenaska ever since going on 16 years and best job I ever had. Love being general counsel of a non-public, but still fairly large enterprise. Um, don't miss the sec regulation aspects of my job at all. But it’s been a lot of fun.
[00:10:06] Mosah: Thanks Drew. And now onto David.
David, you've had a really interesting, varied career yourself, um, hoping you can share a little bit about your path and what you expected, and then certainly I think our listeners are all really excited to learn more about Kiewit and your role within it.
[00:10:24] David: Sure. Well, I'll start by saying that I was actually born in San Francisco and grew up in California, so that makes me an anomaly living in Omaha.
I too choose to live there. Um, and that just, I guess, is a great selling point for what a great city it is. After graduating law school, I went to, was hired by the firm that I clerked for, for two summers, and I think that's fairly typical for new grads. I was there for 18 months and I got recruited by a firm that I, we had a trial against.
I was a third chair lawyer in charge of briefing on a construction case. I actually represented a public utility in that case, and it had construction elements. And the firm on the other side was a litigation boutique firm that specializes in construction and they had a need. And so they recruited me over, and I was there for 10 years.
I made partner and then I got recruited to the one big law firm in Nebraska, and managed an office for them and kind of traveled around a bit to different offices, did a variety of work. Throughout my career, I've traveled kind of to where the disputes were. And then, I was recruited 20 years ago, 2003 to join Kiewit, and I've done a variety of tasks with them.
Kiewit is one of the largest construction and engineering firms in North America. We have about a third of our operations in Canada. We operate coast to coast in pretty much every market in the construction industry. I guess about seven years ago, eight years ago, we had a very large dispute in Los Angeles where I'm at right now.
It involved the large highway project and it was a significant multi hundred millions of dollar dispute. And they sent me out here to try and recover as much of that as possible. And so that went relatively well. Everybody was happy with the outcome and they had another dispute piled up and they said, well, hey, you learned so much on the last one, why don't you take over all of them? So we reorganized our department and Group General Counsel is the title they've given me, but I oversee all claims, litigation, government investigations.
You know, I, as I describe it, anything bad happening with the company, they assign me to it. So I'm not at too many ribbon cuttings, but I do get to go to court.
We're very active in our engagement with outside counsel on matters. Much more so than a lot of our peer firms. And so we're active roles in cases. While, I don't appear as the first chair in matters, you know, we're doing everything from writing questions to editing briefs, directing the strategy that should be implemented.
We have accumulated so much experience over such a breadth of topics and really large dollar on disputes. Frankly, most of the outside council that we use haven't had that level of experience. So it's a very collaborative relationship that we are able to develop. And, as I say, I'm tending towards the end of my career.
So I have a lot of really interesting experiences I'm happy to pass along to others, so this is a great opportunity to do that.
[00:13:37] Mosah: Thanks so much, David. And for our listeners, I think if they're sitting at their computer or they're listening to this on their drive, I think each one of them will likely be impressed by the variety of, of paths that each of you have has sort of had in your career.
Right? So nothing was quite linear. And I think if I'm, if I'm a listener to, to each of your backgrounds and don't know each of you as well as I already do, I think I'd be curious to know, and this question's really for whoever wants to take it first. What did you use to help guide your paths and, and really what helped guide you on that journey?
It can't just be fate or luck? Anyone want to weigh in on, on what helped guide you on those paths?
[00:14:19] Drew: I'll offer a thought or two, Mo on that. I've actually in thinking about this podcast and things that I might share, that was something that I kept being drawn back to that I mentioned I really enjoy my current job.
I think it's a perfect match for my skillsets, and I hope and think that I add a fair amount of value to our company. If you'd asked me as a first- or second-year lawyer how I would explain how I arrived at my dream job 35 years later, I would've, as a young lawyer, assumed that there would've been a lot more deliberate, brilliant strategy involved.
But looking back at that, from where I sit now, I don't see much of that. I see, some curve balls. I see some, some bean balls narrowly avoided. And I see some good judgment. I see some, you know, by accident, consistently good networking and wonderful contacts that I've met throughout the years.
But I guess just kinda, I've got three kids and thinking back to when they were younger, the kind of thing that my wife and I would provide them as advice often included the phrase, make good choices. You can't control the options that you'll have at various points in your career, but they're, when you, when you reach Yogi Barrow, right?
When you reach the fork in the road and you gotta take one, you gotta take it. And they're critical junctures in your career. The more you have thought through in advance what would be better and what would be worse of various possible outcomes, the better prepared you'll be for those forks in the road.
[00:15:48] Mosah: Thank you. David, Brenda, anything to add either from your personal experience or to build on what Drew was just mentioning?
[00:15:55] David: I would echo what Drew said, and I've actually had this conversation recently. You know, after a number of years, 30 plus years of practicing, you can look back and identify a number of crossroads in your career that led you to the point you're at.
In the moment, you don't necessarily appreciate what's significant. You know, I didn't appreciate that my role as third chair lawyer on a case was gonna lead me to another firm, and then that led me to another opportunity. I guess the lesson as I look back, it would be always look for opportunities to do more, to challenge yourself, to get more experience, to look for mentors.
I can't capture all of the value I've obtained from mentors. I always tell people I take a little bit from every person I've ever met, that I admired or looked for and, and I'm a compilation of that. And so anytime you see somebody that's doing something in a way that you wish you did it, steal that idea, or that approach, or the way they dress or the way they…anything, it is that, that makes you one step further.
And then I would say I tried to read a lot as a trial lawyer. I wanted to read about what great trial lawyers did and it was a way to accelerate, um, I guess my comfort in dealing with challenging situations that maybe, you know, my career path wouldn't have suggested I was ready for. And it just gave me some level of comfort that, hey, I've read about somebody handling something like this.
This is how it was done. And so when something was presented, I felt like I had a, a basis to rely upon. So mentors, take on as much diverse opportunities as you can and do your best work at all times, cuz you never know when that next opportunity is watching you.
[00:17:45] Mosah: Thanks David. Brenda, anything to add to that question?
[00:17:50] Brenda: I think this is all great advice, and the only thing I would add is just stepping up to the plate when the opportunity, don't be afraid to, to stretch and do it with a good attitude. And if you're gonna, if you're gonna step up to the plate, do it with a good attitude because nobody wants to work with somebody who is a grump.
And if you are gonna complain, you know, you might as well take it elsewhere. If you're gonna do a good job, do a good job because you wanna do a good job. And, you know, I, I believe that if you make it this far in life, you're smart. I think the, the part that is the extra cherry on top is being someone that you wanna work with.
Having the, a good work ethic and being the utility player. You know, being willing to, to roll up your sleeves and, you know, and step in when, where needed. I think that shows, you know, when you're a hard worker and people pay attention to it, and just as David said, you know, you never know who's watching, who's paying attention and they circle back.
But also, I think if I had anything to do differently, um, I would've been more deliberate in my networking. Um, I met a lot of great people, and Mosah knows, but I met 'em and I kept them as friends because I just thought they were interesting. I never thought about it from the standpoint of hey, this could probably get me to another level.
I just said, they're pretty cool. I like what they do, and I would ask a lot of questions, but I would, in looking back, I think I would've been a little more deliberate, even though things didn't work out so badly. But I would've probably given a little more planning to it.
[00:19:21] Mosah: Brenda, you've answered my next question already, which is focused on networking and relationship building. So, um, you know, one of the things that when we're working with job seekers or those who are wanting to help manage their careers in, in new and better ways, it always comes back to people. People hire people. People connect people with people.
And so I'm hoping we can spend a little bit of time talking about networking and relationship building and just generally how that intersects with managing one's career. So Brenda, you teed it up perfectly. I think the next question that I'd like to throw at the group is, you know, how have you really worked to build and cultivate your professional networks?
How have you been intentional about that? Or what have you seen work that maybe you didn't get to take advantage of that you'd recommend to those listening questions out there for any of you.
[00:20:11] Brenda: I think being inquisitive. I mean, I think that people are animals, so we kind of sense when someone is genuine or not genuine.
And you're right, Mosah, most people gravitate towards people they like. So, um, I think in the networking experience, not being so ginger or afraid to reach out, if you're gonna reach out, reach out, but do it on a real level that you really are coming not with some contrived questions, but real questions.
If I reach out it, I might say, well, hypothetically speaking, if I had a situation and I want to know, because there's someone who's either dealt with a situation like that, or I think they may have some knowledge. I mean, reinventing the wheel is crazy. Why start from scratch? I, I like being able to pull from people in my pool of, of friends and, and folks that I've met along the way, and they seem to genuinely appreciate that.
[00:21:12] Mosah: Thank you.
[00:21:14] David: Yeah, I would just add, Brenda used the word deliberate and, and I would be a poster child for having not been deliberate. Um, you know I have not maintained consistency in the relationships. They're segmented, they're project specific, and I missed that. Um, you know, when you're an in-house attorney, it's not as critical to build a network per se, but the reality is I hire people I know.
Uh, when recruiting people to work for me, it's, I wanna spend a lot of time with them, get to know 'em. I hire outside council that I already have a relationship with, so it is important to kind of, I think, reach out, um, get out of your comfort zone. It's not a natural thing for me to just go to events and, you know, be a social butterfly at all.
Uh, but to the extent you're comfortable, I would say get out and then be consistent. And it's just about polite. Reach out, drop somebody a note, a text, whatever. How are you going? Congratulations on this latest win I just read about whatever it is. If it's honest, um, and timely and, you don't even need to be thinking of something specifically that you want to get out of it.
But those relationships, again, without knowing what the next opportunity is gonna be, they just provide more opportunities for you. Uh, I think to have that call come to you, that's a surprise. And hey, we need you for a job. Because I know, well, the people I've hired, I did not know them as lawyers. I knew 'em as people first and I thought, hey, this is a person that would fit in our culture.
They've got the skillsets that I need, and I went out and sought them as opposed to just opening a door. So the broader your, um, your network is, I think the more opportunities that presents for you.
[00:23:08] Mosah: Thanks, Drew?
[00:23:11] Drew: Yeah, those are all good comments. And I guess I'd, I'd second one and then offer a, a different thought.
Um, I think the default setting for very experienced senior lawyers in our profession is to want to provide advice and to welcome inbounds from people who want to establish a relationship and network. I mean, I'm, I'm always a little bit flattered maybe, but intrigued when someone I don't know, or I just met at a conference or, uh, you know, have an acquaintance with reaches out to me and says, hey, do you have time? I’d like to talk.
Uh, and my default setting, and I think it's very common among people I've talked to about this topic, is, heck yeah, that'd be fun. Let's set some time aside and, and let's talk. The other observation I'd make is, I guess I've had a, a, maybe a somewhat unique opportunity to build networks more broadly and earlier than younger lawyers often get the chance to, to build.
And it was partly by the happenstance of beginning my career in DC working at a big international law firm and being an energy lawyer. There is a specialized energy bar association that happens to be headquartered in DC and most of its membership, not surprisingly is DC and Houston. And in the very early years of, being an attorney, I joined the Bar Association, began to attend events.
Ran into people that I had run into, uh, in my regulatory practice or in my transactional practice, and began to build relationships with these people and make some friends outside of the practice, uh, many of whom are still friends today, some of whom I'm still, they're senior partners in law firms back in DC and I'm sending work to.
But if you get the opportunity as a relatively junior lawyer to join the membership of a specialized bar association relevant to your practice area, by all means do it and volunteer for the committees. You get the speaking opportunity. It's a pain to prepare for and, and deliver, but it's worthwhile and further expands your network.
And I look back again, having never heard the word networking, I can't claim that this was a deliberate strategy on my part, but, uh, doing more of that maybe than I thought I really had time to do at the point and time in my career when I did, turned out to be a pretty good idea.
[00:25:28] Mosah: Well certainly the tie that sort of each of you have to one another is that you have practiced law, right? You've practiced law either in the government or in a law firm, but you're also, uh, executives. And I'm wondering if setting aside the fact that you have a, a credential and a license that is different than many of your colleagues, if you'd think about networking across functions.
Um, so as a general counsel Drew, how, how do you broaden your network with, within the finance space, right? And is that, uh, something that you'd be, you know, interested in, in encouraging or providing advice on? And so from an executive’s position, cuz all of you are also in house now, does that answer change as you think about sort of your dual function both as lawyer and as a corporate exec?
[00:26:12] Drew: Yeah, great question Mosah. There is definitely, uh, an aspect of the in-house practice when you rise to the level that you function as an executive, particularly at the C-suite that is, is different than practicing law and representing clients and litigating or uh, executing transactions. And I, I guess if I could point at one thing that was not obvious to me in my younger years, but became obvious later, you have to, if you don't, if you're not born with an interest in and an aptitude for business and accounting and understanding balance sheets, understanding income statements, and being literate in those matters, you better force yourself too, because it will make you a more useful, uh, member of the management team.
Frankly, it'll allow you to get out of your lane occasionally in a way that adds value, and you're gonna find that your perspective, uh, leads you to things that other people didn't look at or, uh, different insights than the other decision makers on the team had.
And I've, I've found in my career, particularly the last six or eight years, that, that's part of the value I'm delivering, maybe by accident. But I think it's appreciated.
[00:27:29] Mosah: Thanks, Drew. David, Brenda, anything to add to that?
[00:27:33] David: Well, I would just say I agree and I think on the accounting side, the cost side, every case you have, unless it's a criminal matter, involves dollars and cents.
And it's surprising to me how many lawyers are completely dependent upon outside consultants to deal with damages issues, quantification issues, understanding how you know, costs are incurred and spent and accounted for, and that's, I think, a mistake. If I, when a trial lawyer, I want to have a mastery, uh, and understanding of the issues that I'm going to be arguing and not rely upon someone else and just trust them to get it right.
I find that to be an error and so I agree a hundred percent. I actually started a, um, executive MBA program at Columbia for that purpose, just focused on the financial and accounting to get a better understanding of our client’s financial needs, to get a better understanding of, of county issues and cost issues.
And I founded it very, very useful as I've gone forward and that's relevant to my career. I would say if you were in a different practice area, you might wanna look at other relevant, um, issues pertaining to the industry that you're practicing in, right? So if you're a, a pharmaceuticals lawyer, I would think you'd wanna understand things about intellectual property rights and you know, how the insurance reimbursement works and those kinds of things.
And not at a superficial level, but when you're a young lawyer, that's the time to really learn your craft, I think. And I would take advantage of those opportunities.
[00:29:08] Mosah: Thanks, David. And I imagine implied in your answers that networking with those who can help you understand that and, and building those partnerships with colleagues both inside and outside of your company is key.
Is that a fair statement to add to it? All right, thank you. Um, Brenda, anything to add to the conversation on this topic as an executive.
[00:29:26] Brenda: Sure. Just along the same lines though, um, and just said a different way is know your business. I think if you work across, you know, cross-functional teams and you really understand the business you get, um, coming from the legal team, you get a ton of respect because if you answered questions in a way that you know their business, um, they have a lot of respect for you that, oh, you understand what we're coming, you're just not legal telling us, well, what we can and can't do.
And especially when it comes from, um, litigation or compliance, you know, you don't wanna be looked at as, oh, here they come, you know, like doctor death, you know, you got the hood and the sickle, and you know off with your head. You know, you're coming because we're all part of a team and we're trying to make this better.
Uh, I think that goes a long way.
[00:30:18] Mosah: Thanks. Thank you so much. So in just a few words, maybe two, three words. For those people who, and this is quite honestly the case with clients that we have at all levels, whether they be director level all the way up to C-Suite, uh, some people just don't like to network.
They're resistant to it for any number of reasons. They're not predisposed to be. I think we heard the term social butterfly earlier in the conversation. What two or three words would you give to someone if they were fearful of, of that whole concept of getting out and, and meeting new folks or giving that presentation or sending the random text message to congratulate someone?
How would you encourage them?
[00:30:56] David: I would say do it anywhere.
[00:30:57] Drew: Three words? I was gonna say if you're resistant to it, my three-word advice would be, get over it.
[00:31:04] Mosah: Brenda?
[00:31:05] Brenda: I think be deliberate, be prepared and fearless. Uh, if you are deliberate, at least pick out the people that you would like to have a relationship with.
So it's not so superficial. Um, understand who they are, what's going on. So be prepared in what kind of questions you may ask or kind of conversations you want to have with that in individual. And be fearless from the standpoint of if you, approach it in a timid manner, it comes off artificial. If you're gonna talk to 'em like an equal, you're gonna talk to 'em like a friend.
Do that. I think it might be reciprocated.
[00:31:42] Mosah: Thank you so much everyone. I enjoyed having each of you on the show today. Brenda, Drew, and David learning more about your career paths was truly insightful and inspirational. Next month we will be releasing part 2 of this series when we highlight their insights into how to advance yourself in a job search. Thanks so much.
[00:32:07] Richard: Thank you for joining us on Hiring Insights. Remember, you can learn more about Top Talent Advocates and listen to other episodes by visiting toptalentadvocates.com and click on the Podcast.
You can also email us at tta@toptalentadvocates.com
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